In this episode, Ben Towne sits down with Jeff Faust and Eric Sunheim — two seasoned business valuation experts from the San Francisco Bay Area — to demystify what business appraisal actually is and why it matters. The conversation covers the difference between valuation and appraisal, the limitations of AI and shortcuts in determining business value, and the real costs behind a thorough professional valuation. The guests challenge the misconception that valuation is a black box, emphasizing that it requires deep analysis, judgment, and the ability to defend conclusions under scrutiny. They also highlight that clients don’t always need what they ask for, and that regular valuations — though underutilized — can provide significant strategic insight. Each expert shares their niche within the field and the spirit of collaborative co-opetition that defines their professional relationships.
Chapter 1: Welcome to Max Value Podcast
Ben Towne introduces guests Jeff Faust, partner in charge of business valuation at Abbott Stringman Lynch CPAs, and Eric Sunheim, owner of Marovous Valuations. The episode is framed as an accessible introduction to business appraisal for owners and advisers who may not have a background in the field. Key themes from throughout the episode — including the limits of AI, the cost of professional valuations, and the importance of skilled judgment — are previewed in a brief highlight reel.
Chapter 2: Getting Into Business Appraisal
Jeff, Eric, and Ben each share how they entered the business valuation field — Jeff through an ESOP company in the 90s, Eric through expert witness and forensic work, and Ben through a CPA firm where forensic practice drew him in. All three acknowledge that valuation was largely unknown as a standalone career path when they started, though this has changed significantly as universities now offer dedicated valuation coursework. They reflect on how finding candidates who already speak the language of the field is now both more common and more exciting.
Chapter 3: Valuation vs Appraisal
The group unpacks the subtle but meaningful distinction between “valuation” (used for intangible entities like a business) and “appraisal” (used for tangible, touchable assets like real estate or equipment). While the terms are often used interchangeably — largely due to the ubiquity of real estate appraisal — professionals in the field tend to be precise about their usage. A further distinction is raised: some clients who say they want a “valuation” actually want a pricing, and value is ultimately only recognized when money is exchanged at a given price.
Chapter 4: Real Value or Just Theory?
The conversation turns to why AI and rules of thumb fall short as shortcuts for business valuation. No two businesses are the same — risk profiles differ dramatically even among companies with similar revenue, depending on owner dependency, contract stability, customer concentration, and more. The panelists agree that AI and software are useful tools in the toolkit, but like power tools for a carpenter or AI for a radiologist, they augment rather than replace skilled professional judgment. The ChatGPT Amish anecdote illustrates the risk of AI hallucination in high-stakes contexts.
Chapter 5: Valuation in Real Life
The discussion addresses why professional valuations cost significantly more than discount alternatives. The experts explain that the fee reflects hours spent analyzing trends, applying transaction databases, and looking at a company from multiple methodological angles — all to eliminate bad answers and tighten the range of reasonable conclusions. They emphasize that their primary role is to provide a defensible opinion, not just a number, and that they frequently cross-refer to each other despite being competitors. They also note that asking “what are you trying to accomplish?” is often the most important first question — because not every client who calls for a valuation is actually ready for one.
Chapter 6: Common Valuation Myths
Jeff challenges the misconception that business valuation is a black box — a process where you feed in data and a mysterious number comes out. In reality, every assumption and judgment call must be fully transparent and defensible, including under testimony. Eric adds that clients often confuse what they think they want with what they actually need — for example, wanting “a valuation” when they really want the value of a minority interest in a specific legal context, subject to specific discounts. The distinction between a defensible opinion and a “secret proprietary methodology” is illustrated through a cautionary story about a client who found a cheaper appraiser who told them what they wanted to hear — and the IRS’s likely opinion of that.
Chapter 7: What Clients Get Wrong: The Biggest Misunderstandings About Value
The panelists highlight that clients frequently ask for more than they need — or less than they actually need — without realizing it. A full formal valuation isn’t always necessary; sometimes a diagnostic conversation is sufficient. Ben notes that right-sizing the engagement is an act of service, not a sales decision. Jeff raises the underutilization of regular (annual or semi-annual) valuations: business owners will monitor a $200K investment account closely but rarely have their most significant asset — their business — professionally valued until a trigger event forces it. Update valuations are significantly cheaper and can yield meaningful strategic intelligence about market trends, competition, and transaction activity.
Chapter 8: How Business Type Changes Value
Each panelist shares their area of specialization. Jeff’s firm focuses primarily on ESOP (employee stock ownership plan) valuations — a highly regulated and specialized area requiring deep operational knowledge of how ESOPs function. Being embedded in a large accounting firm creates occasional independence conflicts that lead to referrals to Eric and Ben. Eric handles expert witness testimony and fairness opinions, areas that require courtroom comfort and a specific appetite for high-stakes scrutiny. Ben’s firm differentiates through its Exit Builder program — a structured exit planning process for small and mid-size business owners preparing for a once-in-a-lifetime ownership transition.
Chapter 9: Get to Know You
In the closing segment, each guest shares what they’ve been reading and where to find them. Jeff just completed his NACVA recertification, reading extensively about current valuation updates and how AI is being handled in the profession. Eric reviewed the S-1 from competitor Andersen’s public listing and noted changes in how USPAP is defining “client” across credentialing bodies. Ben uses this to explain the three credentialing organizations represented — NACVA, ASA, and AICPA — all of which follow USPAP but each with their own additional standards. The episode closes on a note of co-opetition: these three Bay Area competitors regularly refer work to each other, collaborate across audit reviews, and fundamentally believe there’s more business than any one firm could handle alone.
